While writing the article for Rags to Riches and CHANGE, I contacted Delve Interactive and, a few weeks later, here I am having with an interview with Danny Hayes, game designer for Delve Interactive and responsible for CHANGE. I was curious to ask him what was the inspiration – both personal and from a game design standpoint – for CHANGE, everything that happened with his previous game, PONCHO, and social messages in modern indie gaming.
How did the idea to make a game about homelessness come about? Did it come from a personal place or was it conceived as a way to make people more aware of the issues behind it?
The inspiration for CHANGE started after our first game, PONCHO was released and subsequently failed. Personally I quit my job, took out loans, all things you shouldn’t do a with a first game. The result was being 5 figures in debt and facing eviction without a job, but I was lucky and had the support of friends and family to help me couch surf for while until I got back on my feet. I wrote a postmortem that has more details on that part of the journey (highly recommended reading for anyone – ed’s note). It made me realize how easy it was to fall into homelessness, and it can happen so damn fast to anyone. That, along with the rise of homelessness and tabloids slurring the homeless, as well as games like Bum simulator and similar games existing, filled me with a need to create a positive voice. It didn’t have to be a game, but it’s just my best way to communicate a message to a wide audience who otherwise might not encounter the details of what it’s like on the streets any other way.
Were there any games that inspired your approach in making CHANGE? As you know, while writing the article I referred a lot to Rags to Riches on the C64, but I’m aware that might be pure coincidence!
In terms of inspiration, I’d say there’s definitely a touch of Papers Please in there. But otherwise I tried to draw inspiration from reality and let the game design flow out of it as naturally as possible. I‘d never actually heard of Rags to Riches until one of our players told us about it over a year ago and they also thought it was a spiritual successor of sorts. I was really surprised how similar the game was! But, I suppose that’s because it’s inspired from the same material, as well as the fact that we went with a retro side scrolling style that was chosen to make the experience more accessible.
CHANGE is one of the few games to cover topics such as sexual abuse and the menstrual cycle of its female protagonists. How did this idea come about?
I originally intended to develop the characters as generally androgynous, but after seeing many thinking they were all male, I set out to diversify them. I realize many of those topics would be quite hard to display in a game where I was the only writer. I realized there were a lot of can of worms, like sexual work and organized crime being involved. I tried to keep those cans as sealed as possible. But my research was conducted mostly in the field. I went out onto the streets, exchanging cigarettes with various homeless people and listening to their problems, to have a better idea of what they were going through every day. The NPCs in CHANGE, then, are an amalgamation of the people I spoke with, including the canine companion, which was also inspired by my experiences.
Since you’ve mentioned Papers, Please as an inspiration, what is your opinion about games with a strong political message? Would you especially like your games to challenge social issues?
I think it’s important to recognise that games are now a pillar of modern culture. When you contribute to that culture, you inevitably shape minds and opinions. Game designers have a responsibility to be mindful of this, but it doesn’t seem like most are aware of how big a deal that is. Since games are uniquely suited to putting someone in another’s shoes, evoking feelings of pride or guilt, it makes sense for sociopolitical statements to be made through games. I love seeing unique games with a strong message, but there is still the view of games being an immature art form that shouldn’t be talking about these kinds of issues. If more political games were to come out, maybe that sentiment will die down eventually. As for me, this kind of project really took a lot, both emotionally and mentally so I think I will at least need to do a “happier” game in between these darker, more political titles.
How was your experience with Change as an early access title and the feedback from the players?
The early access experience has been great for us. It’s a tough subject to swallow, and it’s really important to us that we get this right, so having players to constantly interact with while we develop has been super useful. It’s also been a factor in keeping us going, the stories that people share about being inspired to help someone in their area, or just some kind words for us are all boons that help when developing a very, very depressing game for years. There’s even been messages from the formerly or currently homeless who’ve played and given their thoughts, which is amazing. The one caveat of early access is that it makes feature creep a lot worse when you have an audience that you want to please as much as possible, but it makes for a better game I guess if you can keep your vision strong.
You have been working on the game for so long now. What happened?
To date, I’ve been working on Change for about eight years. When I started working on it I thought it would be a quick project, a kind of strong artistic vehicle for my ideas. Instead, in the end, Change ate up all the rest of the time I had left to work on other stuff. That also happened probably because it’s a modular game, it’s easy to add new things and without realizing it you have spent months working on a small thing”
What were the biggest challenges in the project?
The biggest hurdle for CHANGE was having to balance the more depressing aspects of being homeless with what was still, at its core, a game. I understand that people can be rightfully skeptical of certain intentions from a game such as CHANGE. It is true that video games have rarely managed to deal with certain sensitive topics in a mature way. As for me, I just would like for people to sit down and try the game for a few minutes, I think it’s easy to see what is the idea behind CHANGE.
I wanted to present some of the typical misconceptions about homelessness, to actually show the consequences. I certainly didn’t want to just depress the players, but I also cannot hide the reality of these people. They have no choice but to try to be aware of their surroundings and stay away from negative events as much as possible. I wanted the game to pace its moods, take the player on a journey, so that it’s not always all black or all white. Interacting with the other NPCs, for example, as well as the shelters, give you a sense of community. Make you realize that, perhaps, you are not as alone as you think. Still, I realize how by just using a short text for the night events, I can easily change the mood of the player.
Did CHANGE turn out a profit?
It did, in the end, which was quite useful for me to recover from a bad situation. As was always the plan, I donated part of the proceeds to charities. To date we have managed to donate £7500, as soon as I finish updating the game, I will return to giving as much of the proceedings as possible.
Are you satisfied with how the project turned out in the end?
Yes, although CHANGE was developed with my back bent over the laptop on the train, between jobs, the satisfaction of being able to say no to an interested publisher warmed my heart, considering what I have passed. I really did not want anyone messing with the message of the game. I know some publishers are good, but in my case they’re not really needed. I always intended CHANGE to be a personal statement with no external interference.
To finish the interview, what is your takeaway from this project? Are you working on something else?
I definitely want to work on something different to cleanse the palate, so to speak. I have an ambitious title that I’ve been working on for a while; a fantasy RPG that I will announce as soon as possible. Of course I am happy about being given the opportunity to develop a game so different, but it is fair to say the relationship continues to take a toll on me. I think there is no doubt about it, CHANGE has changed my life for good. But it has certainly consumed a good deal of it as well.
Originally published in 2020, later updated in 2023.
Thanks to Danny for his time and patience.
Thank you for reading. If you wish to help keep the website alive and running, be sure to check out my Patreon to find exclusive articles. Or, well, offer me a coffee.
